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Author: alassio | Created: 2017-03-04 20:30:02
Subject: What exactly does pro mode mean?
Hi all
Since for the new championship pro mode will be used,
I would like to better understand what that means.
Is there somewhere a detailed description?

Note that I today installed the latest 1.3.8-test1 release
and let the last winner usr_2016 perform some races.
With semi-pro mode it performed well, but in pro mode with
tyre wear it struggled and failed to perform any lap without crashing.

It will be quite a challenge for everybody to adapt to these changes ...
Last Edited: 2017-03-04 20:30:02 by alassio
    Author: berniw | Created: 2017-03-04 22:26:07
    Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
    Hi

    Pro mode:
    - Real grip (semi pro has +30%)
    - More damage
    - Some additional rules are enabled (e.g pit speeding is checked, entering/exiting the pit incorrectly). The other rules have been on already in the former championships. To play safe aspiring champions should be able to process drive through and stop and go penalties, just in case.
    - Tire model is on (new) by default

    Kind regards

    Bernhard
    Last Edited: 2017-03-04 22:26:07 by berniw
      Author: jspenn | Created: 2017-03-06 11:31:40
      Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
      Ah, this explains "the slide", a problem I am having with my robot.
      Last Edited: 2017-03-06 11:31:40 by jspenn
        Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-07 01:47:57
        Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
        I should mention that with Hymie you've chosen probably the most user-unfriendly starting point for your robot. If I may make a suggestion, I think you'd do much better using Axiom, as its much better behaved out of the box.
        Last Edited: 2017-03-07 01:47:57 by firechief
          Author: jspenn | Created: 2017-03-07 09:33:32
          Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
          You know how much work I've done on the robot?








          Literally none.
          Last Edited: 2017-03-07 09:33:56 by jspenn
            Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-07 13:19:14
            Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
            Hehe, in which case I'd definitely think twice about using it. I'm not trying to put you off - you're most welcome to base your bot on hymie if you prefer, just saying it'll take a lot of effort to get it competitive (which is something I know from experience) - and with pro mode it'll take work just figuring out how to keep it on the track. There's a few bugs I've spotted in its handling which weren't evident in semi-pro, but in pro they're painfully obvious.
            Last Edited: 2017-03-07 13:19:14 by firechief
      Author: alassio | Created: 2017-03-08 13:17:28
      Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
      What I do not yet understand:
      If my tires all operate optimally regarding temperature/tire model,
      does my car have the same traction/grip as with semi-pro or not?
      If not, where in the code can I find that behaviour?

      Thanks, Rico
      Last Edited: 2017-03-08 13:17:28 by alassio
        Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-08 13:40:55
        Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
        No, properly warmed up tires will not have the same grip as semi-pro. They will, however, have the maximum grip available under pro mode, which is 30% less than the articially-boosted semi-pro.

        If your tyres aren't at optimum temperature your grip level will be even less.
        Last Edited: 2017-03-08 13:40:55 by firechief
          Author: alassio | Created: 2017-03-08 17:34:39
          Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
          Where is that visible?
          I checked at runtime in both modes in SimWheelUpdateTire()
          and mu of the wheel is still the same value as for semi-pro mode.

          Regards, Rico
          Last Edited: 2017-03-08 17:34:39 by alassio
            Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-09 01:02:54
            Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
            I asked Bernhard this exact question when he first mentioned introducing tire wear. His answer:-

            "I just said "no" to the mu, as stated you will see the wear and more, more means at least temperature, pressure and graining level. I will not implement blistering at this time, the chemistry department might follow later."

            So the idea is that our robots have to use the car->priv.wheel[n].currentTemperature, currentGraining and currentWear to calculate how much grip is available, and for this you'll need to experiment a bit.

            Graining is easy - when at its max of 1.0 its subtracting 10% of the tire's grip. Temperatures are a different matter. You'll need to find out what the optimum working range is, keeping in mind that the absolute ideal temperature is already given to you (95 degrees celsius). Outside that working range you'll need to slow your car down - when its cold, in order to keep it on the track, and when its hot in order to prevent accelerated wear.

            In not telling us the current mu & making us work it out for ourselves, Bernhard has made things more interesting plus its also realistic. Drivers/engineers would have access to temperature readouts and they can visually see the degree of graining. I'm not sure "wear" would be that easy for them to calculate, usually they'd go off experience to know how long a tire should last given optimal temperatures, but the game's doing us a favour by letting us know what it is.
            Last Edited: 2017-03-09 01:02:54 by firechief
              Author: alassio | Created: 2017-03-09 08:50:50
              Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
              Thanks for the detailed explanation.
              I now understand the basics of the tire model good enough,
              the main point was to also understand the additional impact
              of pro vs semi-pro which on top of the tire model impacts grip.
              This one could have been handled via tire mu or track friction
              to make it explicit.

              Regards, Rico
              Last Edited: 2017-03-09 08:50:50 by alassio
                Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-09 11:00:22
                Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
                Ah sorry, I misread your question. Not the first time I've done that, certainly won't be the last...

                I also see that Bernhard's already answered. Well, I hope my little wall of text about tyre wear is helpful to someone :)
                Last Edited: 2017-03-09 11:02:46 by firechief
        Author: berniw | Created: 2017-03-08 21:00:22
        Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
        Hi Rico

        http://torcs.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/torcs/torcs/torcs/src/modules/simu/simuv2/wheel.cpp?revision=1.26.2.22&view=markup&pathrev=r1-3-1, line 306.

        ...1.0f + stmp * simSkidFactor[car->carElt->_skillLevel]...

        Kind regards

        Bernhard
        Last Edited: 2017-03-08 21:00:22 by berniw
          Author: alassio | Created: 2017-03-08 23:49:37
          Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
          Thanks for the reference!
          Just noticed that dammage is also 20% more with pro.
          Regards, Rico
          Last Edited: 2017-03-08 23:49:37 by alassio
            Author: joe | Created: 2017-03-09 02:22:21
            Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
            What is the effect of damage? Loss of power?
            Last Edited: 2017-03-09 02:22:21 by joe
              Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-09 02:50:59
              Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
              Too much damage (10,000 points) and your car is of course out of the race.

              Apart from that it creates more drag which slows your car down, and costs you extra time to repair in pit stops.
              Last Edited: 2017-03-09 02:50:59 by firechief
                Author: jspenn | Created: 2017-03-14 13:26:52
                Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
                Damage creates drag? Huh, you learn something new everyday, as my mum would say.
                Last Edited: 2017-03-14 13:26:52 by jspenn
                  Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-14 14:19:18
                  Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
                  It does in TORCS - I guess it would in real life too as the car's shape will have been altered, though usually damage to race cars involves more catastrophic outcomes such as broken aerodynamic elements, blown tyres or mechanical failures. TORCS didn't take that detailed path but instead went with a "hitbox" method (10,000 damage "points" then the car is eliminated), with drag creating a performance penalty for each damage point. The advantage of this approach is that a car can still be driven just as fast through corners etc, its not like it loses downforce, it just can't reach as high a speed anymore, and obviously the more damage its carrying the more risk that another crash will see it wiped out of the race.
                  Last Edited: 2017-03-14 14:19:18 by firechief
    Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-04 23:54:07
    Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
    What Bernhard said, plus most of the robots in the championship require track-specific configuration to get optimal laptimes or even to get them to lap without crashing - USR in particular is quite slow without its setup. The downloads here only contain the code, no setup xmls or data files are included, but during the championship the participants do see the full setups of all robots for each race.
    Last Edited: 2017-03-04 23:54:07 by firechief
      Author: jspenn | Created: 2017-03-09 09:40:26
      Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
      > The downloads here only contain the code, no setup xmls or data files are included.

      You sure? When I downloaded USR's code, I got setups and data for most tracks.
      Last Edited: 2017-03-09 09:40:26 by jspenn
        Author: firechief | Created: 2017-03-14 14:21:40
        Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
        Hmm ok. That's interesting - past championships are code only, so if there's setups it does make it easier. Though thanks to the move to pro mode they're no longer workable as they'd all be written for semi-pro.

        I'll have to talk to Bernhard about that for future seasons though, as if people can just download the highest-finishing bot complete with all the setups and run it without putting in any work, that kinda kills the competition.
        Last Edited: 2017-03-14 14:22:15 by firechief
    Author: dummy | Created: 2017-03-05 06:26:43
    Subject: Re: What exactly does pro mode mean?
    >It will be quite a challenge for everybody to adapt to these changes ...

    Here is a chance for any new participant to outperform the top teams of the last years ;)
    Last Edited: 2017-03-05 18:16:11 by dummy